Vigilante vs. The World: Spellcaster Archetypes

 Just because I carry it so well doesn't mean it isn't heavy. 

I don't think a discussion of Vigilante would be complete without talking about the archetypes. Many of them function as a "third" specialization, overwriting your identity as Avenger or Stalker. Some of them give spellcasting capabilities, turning them into a type of class I refer to as "utility half-caster" like bard or alchemist. Despite being Pathfinder's most populated category, I think Vigilante really shines among them. 

First, a word about the other archetypes that I won't be covering here. They're fine, and mostly in the realm of "probably worse than standard, but not enough to be unplayable" that most Pathfinder archetypes sit in. Of note is the fact that many of them are inspired directly by pop culture superheroes. Notably, Agathiel, Brute, Gunmaster, and Wildsoul. They're perfectly playable save for Brute and its "attack my friends" bullshit, but I hate the idea of vigilante being so tied to modern superhero conventions and thus I hate them. 

An aside. There's been a history of archetypes, prestige classes or powers where the character is exceptionally powerful, but has a chance to attack their allies. I have personal experience with a fellow player taking Frenzied Berserker in a game of Dungeons and Dragons 3e. These archetypes are tedious and exhausting, adding a "control the asshole" sub-game to the end of every fight. They're only fun for the person playing them, and only then if they're the sort that's obsessed with big numbers. If you enjoy them, you are stupid. Don't allow this kind of thing into your game. 

Ahem. Vigilante's best archetypes are ones who introduce interesting twists, aesthetics or mechanics. Splintersoul comes to mind, its dual identity being less a disguise and more two separate people stuck in one body. Teisatsu turns you into something of a ninja-monk. It probably exists solely because of the character Iron Fist, but I'll let it slide for now. Experimenter is undeniably cool, evoking images of mad scientists experimenting on themselves. It's a shame that it's yet another "attack your friends" archetype, though this aspect could be removed without making the archetype too powerful. 

So that leaves our spellcasters, which will be getting more detailed feedback. This is because they fundamentally change your style of gameplay more than the other archetypes. I might have called Teisatsu cool, but at the end of the day, you're still some weirdo in a mask who punches people. Adding spells and removing most of your vigilante talents is a much bigger change. 

A final note: Every one of these archetypes gives up all of their vigilante talents except the ones at 2, 6, 12, 18 and 20. Since games very, very rarely make it past level 15, this means you have access to three vigilante talents. They also give up 2 skill points per level, putting them all at 4+INT per level. Since this is a commonality between all of them, this is the only time I'll mention it.

Cabalist. Our necromantic cult-joining friend casts spells on the magus progression and from the witch spell list. First off, if you're going to be a half-caster getting up to sixth level spells, Magus is probably the best progression. Your track is just a bit slower than a sorcerer at first, then gets a bit slower as time goes on: getting 2nd level spells at 4, 3rd at 7th, 4th at 10, and so on. You're behind, but it never feels debilitating. 

Casting from the Witch spell list is prime utility. You get a little bit of everything: some cure spells, not restoration or its siblings but remove curse, blindness, disease, and break enchantment. Some evocations and buffs, some utility like scrying, and a list of debuffs as long as your arm. A lot of Pathfinder's debuffs are lackluster, but Witch has got some of the greatest hits like bestow curse, enervation, stinking cloud and black tentacles. Is it a better spell list than either Cleric or Wizard? Well, no. Is it a buffet of useful stuff from both lists? Yes. 

Finally, Cabalist's special abilities. They can take some good stuff with their very few talents, like Tattoo Chamber turning your hand into a staff/wand machine or the always-good-to-have Familiar. That's kind of where it ends, though. Shadow Jump is interesting but never really gets enough feet per day to feel useful. Living Shadow is interesting, but comes late and is pretty limited until you hit 14. Finally, Cabalist has this strange focus on bleed damage that I can't figure out. They can deal bleed damage against unaware or flat-footed foes and take a talent to further bolster this ability, but I just don't think it's very good. Even after they get further abilities surrounding bleed damage like stacking debuffs, a witch (who does not get the standard cleric buffs) is just plain unlikely to be running into melee to activate all of this instead of casting spells.

I like Cabalist. The weird bleed damage thing holds it back, but the only thing they give up for those abilities is Startling Presence and Frightening Presence. It's not a big loss. 

Magical Child. IN THE NAME OF THE MOON, I WILL- alright, alright. I won't do any more of that. This extremely obviously inspired by "magical girl" anime archetype casts as an Unchained Summoner, both in progression and spell list. Unchained Summoner's spell progression is identical to Magus, and everything I said there could be repeated here. However, it's also a sorcerer spells known/per day style caster, and your mileage may vary greatly on if you think that's better or worse than memorizing spells. In my experience, it's a stylistic choice. 

The Unchained Summoner spell list is, however... is not great. You get buffs, lots of buffs, and just enough of anything else to make it hard to say the spell list is Just Buffs. It's not "bad", exactly. You get some evocations, some good group buffs like Haste, and some of the game's better CC like grease, glitterdust, slow and stinking cloud. But that's it. You have an almost complete lack of utility in your spell list. Does that matter? You tell me, I suppose.

They get Transformation Sequence to make switching identities loud but fast. It's fun and thematic, but I don't think the fast transformation is worth it being very noticeable. It makes finding an opportunity to actually do it harder, and I don't like that. Animal Guide, however, basically makes up for it. You get Improved Familiar for free, and you can alter it several times until you hit 9th level, when it gains access to all four types of familiar it was. This means that that you can use the familiar to fill several different roles, even combat. A pretty obvious idea here is to take at least one of the spellcaster familiars like Imp or Lyrakien, then just swap to another one after all of its spells are depleted for the day. 

Magical Child is okay. I'm not a big fan, but it's okay. Animal Guide is more than worth it, but I'm held back by the spell list which, again, you may not have a problem with. I do. It's got a few gems, but it's otherwise lackluster. 

Warlock. It's got Magus-ass spellcasting and the Wizard spell list. I'm not going to waste much time here. I already gave the Magus progression glowing praise twice, and I'm not going to do it again. It's good, and you never feel too far behind. The wizard spell list is, as we all know, chock full of utility and will allow a Warlock to fill a variety of roles by just altering what they're memorizing. You don't get access to 7th, 8th and 9th level spells, but even lower-level spells can provide a wealth of utility. 

Warlock's most prominent special ability is Mystic Bolts, which is a relatively minor amount of energy damage that you can take your iterative attacks with. There are ways to fluff its damage upward, but it's not terrible even without that. I mean, it may only be D6 plus change but it hits on touch AC. You can maybe get some value out of specializing into these attacks, but I see Mystic Bolts as only slightly above the sorcerer 1st level bloodline powers. You know, the ones I tell people to trade out. Your role in combat is likely to be casting spells, and only using Mystic Bolt for conservation. In that case, I guess I can damn it with faint praise: At least it's better than a wand of magic missile. 

Fortunately, Warlock gets some decent talents. Elemental Armor is an okay scaling resistance to a single type of energy that also comes with some "thorns" damage. Familiars are always welcome, and Social Simulacrum can turn your dual identity into something virtually unbeatable by showing both of you in the same place. Tattoo Chamber is here too, and I welcome it with open arms, if only because I love the idea of having five wands or staves on tap at once. 

Mystic Bolts might be a booby prize of an ability, but just like Cabalist and Spill Blood, it's not like you gave up basically anything to get it. Warlock's a damn fine choice and I can owe that determination almost solely to being a wizard-list spellcaster. Obviously I think it's neat, seeing as how I'm playing one at time of writing. 

Zealot. They cast Inquisitor spells on the Inquisitor spell progression, which is the Magus progression again. As I write this, I'm slowly starting to realize that they just use the same progression for all of the "utility half-casters" and I feel silly for not noticing beforehand. Still, everything I said is true. You're only a little behind compared to full spellcasters. 

The Inquisitor spell list is best described as a Cleric spell list that a Rogue had final edit privileges on. It's mostly a Cleric list, including its buffs, heals and status-removers. However, you also get a handful of "self capable" style utility like disguise self, invisibility, knock, Full Pouch and Insect Scouts. Inquisitor as a class has a vibe of "what if a rogue worked for The Church" and Zealot is no different. 

You also get an inquisition, which provide an interesting variety of powers and is a welcome addition. Zealot's talents include a debuffed Channel Energy, Stalwart which functions as Evasion but for Fort and Will saves, and otherwise a bunch of middling crap. That's not so bad, considering you only get three choices to begin with, can still choose general Vigilante talents, and will definitely be taking Stalwart at 12. 

Zealot can be seen as an Inquisitor that trades in several of its class abilities, including the iconic Judgement, for social talents and Dual Identity. It's up to you if you think that trade is worthwhile, but it's definitely a consideration I'd have. I wouldn't blame you, honestly: even with Solo Tactics, teamwork feats aren't that great. 

Avenging Beast. I'll go over this one quickly, in part because it's blessedly, refreshingly simple and in part because it just came to my attention. It casts spells like a Hunter, which is the same progression as all the other ones. As for spell lists, it's colossal: it's all ranger spells, and all druid spells of 6th level and lower. They even explicitly use the lower of the two spell levels, meaning basically that you're a druid who can also cast a few things druid doesn't normally get like lead blades, hunter's lore or burst of speed. 

Your sole other unique ability is wild shape, which you can only use to turn into the animal you chose when you made your big weird Avenging Beast animal mask which I didn't mention. That's not a big loss, depending on the animal you picked. It's only ever Beast Shape I, but it still serves as a solid combat buff that can bring some utility and qualify you for some interesting feats on its own. Avenging Beast doesn't have its own unique talents, so you're stuck picking from the short list of "general" vigilante talents available to all specializations. There are worse fates.

Avenging Beast is a decent option if you want to play something ranger-y or hunter-y without dealing with their unique abilities, or bear the stink of playing a ranger. I don't have to tell you that druid has a solid spell list.

So, this was predictably glowing. Utility focus is my favorite way to build a character, and I feel that Vigilante shines in that role. While other archetypes stack on top of Vigilante Specialization, these five feel like they belong to a third "spellcaster" specialization that's just as valid as Avenger or Stalker. Hell, in the case of Stalker, the Spellcaster Specialization beats the pants off it. 

Until next time.

Vigilante vs. The World

Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something.

I actually really like the Vigilante class in Pathfinder 1e. I think it's fun and versatile, and it brings more utility to the table than fighter, one of its contemporaries. When designing one of my new characters, I went looking for advice or tips on the internet. Bad idea, I know. One of the most common questions was how one should deal with Vigilante's dual identity power. I can see why, it's not like anything else in the game. A piece of advice from the point of view of Pathfinder Society was to just... forget you have it. Just treat yourself as a fighter with some social powers. 

I haven't been able to stop thinking about that reddit comment since. So we're gonna talk about that, and the comparison between Vigilante and its older siblings: Unchained Rogue and Fighter. 

I'll address the actual piece of advice in question first. This is going to end up sounding backhanded, but I think it's decent advice for Pathfinder Society. It's structured play, and presumably you're mostly doing adventure paths. Adventure paths aren't "rigid" so much as... well, lame. Standardized. Yeah, let's just tear my mask off right now, I think it's good advice because I hate adventure paths and I dislike Pathfinder Society. I can't imagine it welcoming a tool that requires innovation and thinking outside of the box to use. 

But I'd be lying if I said Vigilante didn't feel like an alternate rogue or fighter, depending on the specialization you took. I mean, that's the point, isn't it? Even some of its archetypes feel similar to bard or Pathfinder's numerous other utility casters. So... what really is the difference? Pathfinder does have classes that feel like they're intended to replace others. Arcanist comes to mind, it feels like the devs saying "We're sorry that Sorcerer is rigid and its bloodlines are lackluster. Here's a better version.". But it's too different to call it Unchained Sorcerer, and Sorcerer still has some advantages, so they exist in tandem.

That isn't the intention behind Vigilante, obviously. I can't help but notice the parallel, though.  Remarkably similar to Arcanist, it's as if they're saying "We're sorry that Fighter doesn't have much to do outside of combat. Here.". So let's start there and compare what you're getting by playing Avenger Vigilante over Fighter, and what you're giving up. 

What You're Getting

Pick-and-Choose Vigilante Talents. So, Avenger gets some pretty tasty powers, such as the pounce-like Mad Rush or the door-destroying Nothing Can Stop Me. You also get some talents that give more than just a bonus feat, like Lethal Grace, Vital Punishment or Unexpected Strike. Further, there are a lot of utility focused "general" powers that a warrior type would still benefit from, like Shadow's Speed.

But they can also take bonus feats like a Fighter. They even qualify as a Fighter of half their level, meaning they can reach some of the lower-end Fighter specific feats. A dominant strategy here is obviously to take a few nice or thematic talents, a few "bonus feat plus" talents, then fill out the rest with bonus feats. This is overall head and shoulders above Fighter. 

Social Talents. The consensus is that you're giving up numerical bonuses for out-of-combat utility, and here's where some of it is. Social talents are chock-the-fuck-full of fun and useful things to take. They lean toward skill utility, either providing direct bonuses like Social Grace or capabilities like quick change or everyman to give you a quick, essentially unbeatable disguise. Social talents are amazing. 

Dual Identity. This ability is the best disguise in the game... if you play your cards right. It's virtually unbeatable in terms of numbers and provides you protection against divination spells like Detect Alignment or Scry. However, it must be closely guarded: if you get revealed, you could lose your ability to use social talents or enormously impact your character's ability to interact socially, depending on the circumstances. A huge ability if you use it right.

Skills. Six plus INT mod is a lot more skills than Fighter gets, and the list of class skills is as long as your fucking arm. Here's the other half of that out-of-combat utility we were talking about. It's an enormous boost, you're almost a Rogue or Bard.

What You're Giving Up

Hit Points. You get fewer hit points, Vigilante's D8 vs. Fighter's D10. It's not a big loss, in my opinion.

Heavy Armor. You have to take a talent if you want to wear heavy armor, but at least it comes with a minor secondary bonus. Is this a big loss? It depends on your GM. In games with higher ability score values, this doesn't sting much. If you have the room to add some level of Dexterity to your character, you're likely to end up in medium armor anyway. In games with very low ability scores (such as Pathfinder Society) this certainly stings. But... see also Armor Training below. 

Weapon Training and General Numeric Bonuses. So assuming your game gets to about level fifteen, Weapon Training by itself will be +3 to attack and damage. Gloves of Dueling is another +2, and Avengers can't wear those. You're also not likely to reach Greater Weapon Focus or Greater Weapon Specialization, which is another +1 Attack and +2 Damage. This brings your overall penalty to +6 Attack and +7 Damage. That's a fucking lot, and it's a major loss. 

Advanced Weapon Training also bears mentioning here. You're still advancing the bonus on your primary weapon training group, but instead of additional groups (which let's be honest, nobody wants) you can take things like Effortless Dual Wielding to reduce TWF penalties, Weapon Specialist to expand weapon options, or various ways to apply your Weapon Training bonus to checks such as Trained Initiative. Another major loss. 

Armor Training. So remember when I was talking about Heavy Armor Proficiency not being a big loss for Avenger? I do believe that. However, Armor Training means that a Fighter can wear progressively heavier armor without taking a loss, and you can expect many Fighters to end up in Full Plate over time. Realistically, this means they're about 2 to 4 points of Armor Class ahead, without counting Advanced Armor Training. 

In addition to that, Fighters that don't need the expanded Max Dex Bonus on their armor can pick from a variety of powers, some of which will put them an additional 2 or 3 points of AC ahead or grant DR. In a low stat value game, this is an even bigger benefit to the Fighter, because you'll naturally get pushed to the heavier armor faster and take the Advanced Armor Training powers more readily. 

The Verdict. So... I was prepared to call Avenger a solid and clear winner here, but six points of attack and damage is a fucking lot. The AC loss isn't as big, but it's the icing on that giant cake. Is six points a lot? Yes. Is it so much that you shouldn't ever sacrifice it for a ton of utility, if that's what you want? Definitely not. The true answer here is to weigh what you want your character to do and what kind of action the game's going to have. Just like I like it. 

Stalker is up next. Unlike Fighter, Unchained Rogue is already picked for its ability to play as a "switch hitter", a class that can dish out decent damage but still carry utility along with it. Don't be surprised when I go into the differences in specific utility powers available, unlike the previous comparison.

What You're Getting

Pick-and-Choose Vigilante Talents. So, for things a rogue might take, there's a lot to love that a Stalker can easily reach. They can grab a climb speed via Rooftop infiltrator, an ability I always thought was underrated. They can take Hide in Plain Sight at 8th level, the always-nice Shadow's Speed for extra move speed, or Shadow Sight for decent senses. You also get access to some of the "bonus feat plus" talents I mentioned above, like Lethal Grace. 

You can also do a similar thing as above, and take rogue talents. The same dominant strategy applies here, in a way: You'll pick the tastiest vigilante talents, then fill the rest out with rogue talents. 

Social Talents. Not a lot more to say here that I didn't already say above. Social talents are a wealth of utility, and they fit nicely into a Stalker's kit. A minor note here is that social talents lean toward being... well, social. It's a different approach than the classic Rogue sneakery, but it intersects in some places, like Skill Familiarity or the various disguise powers. 

Dual Identity. Everything I said above is still true. However, this can matter a touch more for a stalker: your vigilante identity can be the one seen doing all the dirty work or spotted while sneaking around, and your social identity stays squeaky clean and innocent. Avengers likely get their sneak-and-subterfuge on as well, but not as often as Stalker.

General Toughness. Stalker still gets medium armor proficiency Avenger does. Not a big boost, but it can be nice if you'd like to divorce yourself from being married to DEX like Rogue is. 

Weapon Proficiency. Unlike Rogue, you get the full spread of Martial weapons. Another minor boost in my opinion, but weapon choice will matter a bit more for you than for a Rogue. See the section on combat prowess, below. 

 

What You're Giving Up

Skills. It's not a huge deal at this level, but it's worth mentioning that your skills go down from eight plus INT to six plus INT. You also don't get Rogue's Edge, instead relying on your social talents to compensate. This is not a huge loss, as not all of the skill unlocks are very good.

The Curse of the Buffet. There's two key abilities that rogue gets, and vigilante can reach, but they have to spend a talent on it. Namely, they are Uncanny Dodge and Evasion. You can choose not to take them, of course, but in general this means you're going to have fewer talents than a rogue does. You can't replace it with feats, either: There is no "Extra Vigilante Talent" feat. Some talents may feel as if they make up for it with their "talent plus a bonus" nature like Sure-Footed, but it's a push-pull that mostly leaves Rogue ahead. 

General Combat Prowess. I'm not gonna lie. Oh, lordy this one hurts. You may remember from my previous posts that Unchained Rogue can actually be competitive with Fighter in terms of damage output. This is in no small part thanks to Debilitating Injury, which Stalker does not get and does not have an analogue for. Stalker does not get Finesse Training either. Lethal Grace is arguably better damage overall, but it's another talent from the buffet that Rogue is getting for free. 

And finally. We gotta talk about it, the elephant in the room: Hidden Strike is a straight downgrade from Sneak Attack. On paper, it looks like it's an even trade-off: you're worse at flanking, but better at other sources of gaining Sneak Attack. In practice, flanking is overwhelmingly the best source of sneak attack. As in past ninety percent of the time. Feinting requires a heavy feat expenditure, and doesn't really even get to a place where it competes. Other tricks, such as blinding, are gimmicks that also, again, require investment. Flanking remains free: you just need a friend. 

Vigilante does get a few ways to assist you getting in those flat-footed attacks, but they're lackluster. Startling Presence extends your ability to deal damage in an ambush situation, but let's face it: not every game is going to be conducive to constant sneak-and-ambush combat. You're going to be in traditional combat situations most of the time, unless the GM is running a different kind of game. You also get Perfect Vulnerability, but... I'm sorry, it sucks. It's one attack, and once per day per enemy. 

There's also even more to say about loss of combat effectiveness in the next section. 

Advanced Talents. This is another one that hurts, ya'll. No advanced talents means no Opportunist, which can be an enormous source of damage if played right. It means no Crippling Strike for a bucket full of free STR damage, and you also lose out on some nice defensive options like Slippery Mind or Defensive Roll.  A loss of particular note is Rumormonger, which can be difficult to use but wildly effective in the right hands or in the right game. Losing out on advanced talents isn't the end of the world, but Stalker doesn't get anything to replace many of their capabilities.

The Verdict. This time, Unchained Rogue wins handily. Does Stalker suck? Of course not. Can you still play Stalker if it's what you want? Of course you can. But as I said earlier, the core idea of Rogue is that it's a utility player that can handle itself in combat too. Stalker doesn't perform as well in that role: the loss of Debilitating Injury and the downgrade from Sneak Attack is enormous, and they don't get anything to compensate.

Like I said at the beginning, I really like Vigilante. I think it brings a lot of unique gameplay opportunities and cool powers, and at the end of the day... that's what counts. Is it more than viable compared to its siblings? Yes. Am I a little biased here, as well? Also yes. Giving up some amount of numerical bonus to have a wider range of utility is exactly the choice I make all the time when designing characters. 

Vigilante can make that choice in a dozen different ways, and next up I'll talk about one of the bigger ones: its spellcasting archetypes. See you soon.